Revisiting Above the Rim Soundtrack

Ahmad: To groove on

Vance: Check one, two, check one, two, check one, two. What's, ⁓ my God. ⁓ wait a second. ⁓ what was that? That was, that was, ⁓ okay, okay. All right, here we go. All right, three, two, one. What's going on? This is your boy Vance B.

Ahmad: you I don't know. It's a mod.

Vance: And this is the record report podcast. We back in this thing. How y'all doing? You doing fine? You doing okay? You doing all right? I hope you are. Ammar, how you feeling today?

Ahmad: Amen. I'm blessed man. It's another week. I'm so excited. You picked an amazing album. This is one of the greatest hip hop soundtracks ever. Some classic hip hop songs on here. I even watched a movie to prepare with it. ⁓ I'm going let you tell people what it is because it's your pick.

Vance: Yes, thank you. Yes! Yes! Okay, okay, well, we might as well spoil, we'll let them know. So this week we are doing the Above the Rim official soundtrack. ⁓ Yeah, yeah. A legendary album that is very surprising, but yet still with a lot of soul, with a lot of grit, with a lot of pain and a lot of love.

Ahmad: Yeah.

Vance: that was put into it. So, yeah. ⁓

Ahmad: And I want to say one thing. Friend of the show, Mack, he was on an episode last season. Great friend. He's been rocking with us since Morgan days. I did not realize this, literally when we were about to start recording this, that he told us, I feel like on the episode, maybe he made the cut, maybe he didn't make the cut. But he said, Above the Rim is one of his favorite ... He said it, did Dave say that? Either one. Dave and Mack, two friends of the show.

Vance: Yep. Either one. Yes.

Ahmad: who we love dearly, said it's still one of their favorite soundtracks. We did not think about it at the time when we first said it. it is, please, please forgive us, my brothers, but we will have Mac on soon for a future episode, talk about amazing album and so on. I want to make sure I put that at the top of the show, that we gotta give a shout out to Craig and Dave, Mac for ...

Vance: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Right. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Ahmad: holding us down and we know y'all love this album. Hope you like the episode because I felt bad afterwards. We thought about it.

Vance: Yup, yup, don't be mad at us. Don't be mad at us. We just needed to get it done. We just needed to get it done. yeah, also this, this man, shit was, whoo, this shit was fire, but yeah.

Ahmad: Hahaha You got, what made you pick this album? Like, like, what did you watch the movie? Like, what, what, what did it for you?

Vance: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I always, this album is very important, pivotal to my life because this was an album I listened to around the time of, wait, what's that sound?

Ahmad: New York.

Vance: Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, I hear it.

Ahmad: You hear it now? What's the sound? What does it sound like?

Vance: It sounds like something is moving over there.

Ahmad: Right now?

Vance: Yeah, it's like, what is that? Oh, God damn, God damn, nobody picking up that little shit. Okay, all right, all all right, all right, right. Here we go, here we go, three, two, one. All right, so I chose this, said, because it actually.

Ahmad: I don't know, I don't know, man. I don't want to tell you. It's my knee on a table. Maybe it's my knee on a table. Hope you edit all of these counts out. This is just keep counting. I Was just making it for us to for us to keep going. Oh Bet I just be uploading them shit sometimes I go a lot of tea. Okay, I'm sorry

Vance: It actually kind of helps, honestly. It does help. Yeah, cause it takes out the different things. No, don't do it. No. God damn. Do you even use the AI bots?

Ahmad: Man, I know they be like, man, what the fuck, baby? I'm sorry, go ahead. Back to the episode.

Vance: Okay, all right, so So, all right, I chose this album because one I definitely saw the movie And then to like this this album was pivotal for me because it allowed me to learn about ⁓ Rat at the time that it came out. What the fuck is this?

Ahmad: Hahaha I'm a me-

Vance: ⁓ Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, I definitely chose this album one because it was a pivotal It was a pivotal album for me ⁓ to I watched a movie recently and just really missed the concept of the album ⁓ Representing a movie ⁓ and three This album was always interesting to me because despite the fact that the movie takes place in New York, it has a whole bunch of West Coast niggas on here. And that's one of the reasons why the album is so special because of the West Coast sound. There's so many different hits off of this project alone. And that's very, that's very different for a- straight to soundtrack or film soundtrack in some cases. ⁓ And the fact that it has such a West Coast vibe to it and to know that Death Row was a part of it and to see different like legends on here in their own right, as well as like underground gems, like ⁓ definitely DJ Rogers. It really caught me off guard at the time. And to this day, it catches me off. guard now because it was such a it was such a different how should I say it was such a different magnum opus ⁓ regarding death row and also this movie when it comes to the whole cultural zeitgeist regarding old school 90s hood movies, you know? So for me, I like this album. I like the movie that it represents. It's just, it's weird that you got the West coast and the East coast kind of mashed together through both the movie and the album, yet it still matches the same grit, the same level of passion, the same level of love, the same level of discovery. that the movie has. And I think that relationship has always been something that has made me quite intrigued about this album. And one that makes me go back aside of it just sounding like that shit dumps in the car. ⁓ I also think that it's a really good, it's a really good trip back in time when it comes to listening to not only 90s rap, specifically West Coast rap, but also R &B. I think that's what also caught me off guard. This album was definitely ⁓ full of R &B classics ⁓ from anything to even regulate. it might be a rap song, but it definitely has R &B and soul vibes that match with the rest of the songs off of the album. But then you also got like really hardcore songs like Afro punk. like the fact that for such a greedy movie and such a greedy story, And the label that is putting this album out ⁓ with the record that they have, when it comes to what has happened with Suge Knight and the whole history of Def Ro, the fact that they actually got R &B playing, it is insane to me. And...

Ahmad: And SWV, weren't they on Puffy? Was this pre them on Bad Boy? Were they on Bad Boy or did he just do Bad Boy remixes for them? Am I trippin'?

Vance: ⁓ let's see, let's find out. So this came out in 94. Their first album came out in 92. At this time, they were signed to RCA. Yeah, they were signed to RCA. Their producer was Brian Morgan. But I think that's how they were able to get in. I don't think they were signed by Diddy at this time. Yeah, they were mainly signed by RCA Records. ⁓ my god, ⁓ shit. Can hear me? You okay over there? Yeah, what happened?

Ahmad: Wow, I don't know what that was about. All right, so yeah, so anyway, back. I'm still alive, people did not take me out. What was I about to say? The interesting, SWBV's interesting, R &B's interesting. I really would have loved to know what Suge Knight's role was in this.

Vance: Okay. Yeah, that was wild. Okay. That was, that was the same. Yes. Yeah, yes. Uh-huh, yes. He's not dead.

Ahmad: It was so many hands in the pot. know dr. J was also like executive producer like associate producer producers of episode So same with Kenny or test Yeah, so it was a part of that part and I know that show at the time similar to what he did with two-part album with two-part first perform all eyes on me when he just Took everybody records that was already done and kind of threw them all together and put them out. I thought that was cool. Also, I just think it's also

Vance: Hmm. Yes, it was a part of Interscope.

Ahmad: This is the first movie, the first album we've done where it's connected to legendary black film. And I hope we can talk a little bit about the movie, just like this is a classic black hip hop film. ⁓ We don't get those anymore. Unfortunately, we don't get we don't get good hip hop films where you're telling the story of hip hop culture at the time or the love of like the youth and them hip hop. And I think the music encapsulated that. ⁓

Vance: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: The movie is a classic. It's a part of the New Jack City, Blue Avenue. Is it Blue Hill Avenue? It's a three part. The director made three movies. Sugar Hill, Sugar Hill. I'm thinking of the other one. Sugar Hill and About the Ramp. I think it's amazing to tell three different stories based in New York. We're kind of running at the same time. It is amazing, it's creativity. It is a...

Vance: ⁓ Sugarhill, Sugarhill. Yeah, yeah. So, so New Jack City, Sugarhill and Above the Realm. Yeah.

Ahmad: Beautiful film is two pockets in the movie a lot of black people that we've come to love today and known Associated with so much black history and black culture is in the film. It's in a beautiful story of Essentially two brothers But it kind of derails because two pot is shot in real life So yeah, they're kind of take turn the movie somewhere else in different perspective towards and it could really feature him as much So they had to kind of change like how the movie ended. But it ⁓ is a beautiful film because it tells a story of the lives of people in a real way. And ⁓ just that world at the time. I think it's great way, man. In the music, it's a great job of making you feel like you're there. So whether the sound is the R &B songs you mentioned or whether it's regularly or whether it's...

Vance: Yeah.

Ahmad: I will say I wish there was more New York songs on here, but I'm gonna that alone, but it was a great album. That's one thing that I will say. I wish there was more more New York.

Vance: Yeah! Yeah! I think the only New York act that I know of, unfortunately for, I guess for Tom's sake is Aaron Hall, because I know Aaron Hall was in Guy.

Ahmad: . Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll be, I think, I think I'll be short from the East Coast too. But, ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. So I think if, it was based in LA, I wouldn't have that same issue because it was the sound would have matched the, ⁓ whatever Tupac is from is like grew up in New York, lived in New York, lived on the East Coast. So maybe that's why he does count.

Vance: But other than that, everybody. Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: because he does, at the time he wasn't really claiming the West Coast like that. But I do wish there was more New York representation. again, Tupac does check that box off as an East Coast artist at the time. This is before he went to his West Coast. This is before he was on Death Row. This is in 94. This is before he got his stuff. And before he goes to jail. So yeah, Death Row was after.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also on the cassette release, they also had Tretch on Loyal to the Game. yeah. So there was some East Coast vibes. And then Crack Them Up also had that sound and aesthetic too, even though they're from Watts, California. Also Deep, man. Okay. All right. We'll get into some of the songs. Cause I felt like it was really tough to choose.

Ahmad: True, trash hands on air, good point, great catch. Sure, good point, good point. Good point. Yeah, good point.

Vance: three songs from this album, because every time-

Ahmad: Did we say the album yet? Damn, it's above the room. Oh bad bad bad bad bad. I was shipping, was shipping, I was shipping. Do you want to get it going? Do you want to pick? Do you want to start? Do you want me to start? How you want to this? This is your album, man. You weren't in the show today.

Vance: Yeah, yeah we did, I did. Above the rim, yeah. Yeah, we been said that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like. ⁓ well, nah, let's go with you first, man. The guess always goes first. ⁓ not the guess. Yeah, I mean, goddamn. The person who doesn't choose, yes. Yeah.

Ahmad: Me first? Me first? Okay cool cool cool cool cool. So, let's pick the album. So, I'ma pick Afro Puffs, Lady of Reach. I rock stuff, Rope Puffs, my Afro Puffs. Woo! Go ahead, put your badass up. I love this song, yo. I absolutely love this song. I've always loved this song. I didn't even know this song was on this album when I first heard this song. It's just like she was just talking big shit the whole album.

Vance: ⁓ my God, you're starting out. Hey, walk on with your bad self. Yeah, same here. ⁓ man.

Ahmad: And then when I realized, I didn't really know about Lady Rage that much as a youngie, because I didn't really know about it. I kind learned about this through teachers and stuff like that. But getting older and realizing who she was from the Friday movies and other shit, other stuff, and then putting it all together. It's just a cocky, it's a bragadotious shit talking. And I think that's fun, man. I think that's an element of hip hop that is so important.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah!

Ahmad: especially women rap women hip hop because a lot of times um especially today i'm not trying to get on the pedestal a lot of the braggadocious is rooted in like sex but if you listen to this album listen to this particular song afro possible lady of rage is not her uh sexual proudness and there's nothing wrong with that i think this balance is also healthy it's the hip hop as a culture she's not doing it she's talking about how good of a rapper i am she's standing like i'm

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: Like, I'ma beat you, I'ma out rap you, I'ma out lyric you, I'ma out write you, I'ma out bar you. I think that's so important. We have, and my Afro Puffs, you know what I'm saying? I think that is so fun, it's refreshing, and I love it. So you play this with the music now, and you just yell it loud as you, cause she just talking cash shit the whole song. I love it.

Vance: You right. and my Afro Puffs. Hey! Yeah. Yeah, right, right, right. I like the fact that she plays the alpha woman in the video. The fact that she pulls up to the all black ride, you know what I'm saying? She's the focus of the entire video. And then you just got Snoop Dogg in the back, just jamming, just cosigning. But it's just her spitting, you know what I'm saying? She got the crew in the back. She just had swagger throughout the entire song alone.

Ahmad: Cheers.

Vance: and the way that she's just spinning, it's very different compared to how many other 90s rappers were back in the day. Something very different that I experienced, you know what saying? The beat was already West Coast, but it was still, it still had kind of like that West Coast vibe from back in the day. But her voice and her flow over this song, bro, it was just fucking dope, bro. And.

Ahmad: you You know, she opened up she opened the verse of now I'm here MC's like how do you can

Vance: I remember just watching a video back in the day, but just to have it bang the way that it does constantly, man, that shit is fire. Yeah, yeah, that shit hard, bro.

Ahmad: And they don't thought about it, I'm undisputed. She was just talking trash, And there is actually, I actually really do miss this. I think some rappers still do it. I J. Cool do it a lot too. was where rappers used to like, rappers used to rap about how good they were at rapping. And there's like an art to that. And I really miss it. Cause it's like, it's like, I'm like, I think we like, for example, let me just explain that.

Vance: How you can?

Ahmad: A lot of times we've personalized music to a point now where we want rappers to tell us about themselves. I think that's great and we love it. And you want to hear them rap about like drug stories or you want to hear them rap about like how my life is and rap about like I'm pimping or like topics, right? There's also a section of hip hop. I think you get like Royce the 5'9 in there. You get like Slaughterhouse in there. You get like Eminem in there. You get Alupe Fiasco in there.

Vance: Right.

Ahmad: ⁓ MF DOOM where they are rapping to tell you how good they are at rapping because rapping and hip-hop rap in itself is an art. The ability to take words and idioms and nouns and verbs and the ability to craft a language, if you will, is a skill, is an art form. So I really think that I miss that.

Vance: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Ahmad: There's like, think Earl Shwetzer does it now a lot of times too. He puts like his life in it too, but also it's like a skill. So I think Tyler DeCray does it as well in his own ways. We remember how good he is at rapping. I think that that is a skill into itself and you want that because it's like, it's like the greatest competition type thing. It's like watching like a match.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: like a UFC fight because you're just wrestling with all these things man this I love this I love this song like a deep level because I think it's just a fire song

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. You know what this song reminds me of? I feel like it's like a West Coast version. It's like a West Coast version of whatchamacallit, ⁓ Cha Cha by, ⁓ my God, what's that lady's name? ⁓ my God, this is gonna get on my nerves. MC Lyte. MC Lyte, yes. This gave me that same vibe because.

Ahmad: You by Cha Cha by MC Ly- ahahaha I like that, I like that, I like that yeah cause she was doing the same thing yeah.

Vance: Yeah, like you can tell that she's confident, but it's like a West Coast vibe. You know what saying? You can tell that it's a little bit, it's of course.

Ahmad: You say that you love me, it don't matter. It goes in and out because it's just chit-chatting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep.

Vance: Right, right, right. Like the way that the swagger is there and even with the video again, like when you look at the video, it's just her with her crew. She got a whole mob of people with her. You know what saying? It's very aggressive. It's very hard. You know what saying? And yeah, it's just felt like a ⁓ new version of that. Her providing that level of confidence and stuff. ⁓ my gosh. Hold on, side note, side note, side note, side note.

Ahmad: you ⁓ Thanks.

Vance: I think the stream is picking that up.

Ahmad: The music.

Vance: Yeah.

Ahmad: I had it on mute. You can hear it?

Vance: Yeah, I could hear it. Yeah.

Ahmad: Wait, hold on. You can hear it now? What the hell? ⁓ damn, let me start this.

Vance: I can hear it. Yeah! I was like, I was like, all right. It's got to offer me to talk again.

Ahmad: I was muting the mic. I was muting the mic. My bad, y'all. Hey, my bad, listeners. That's my fault. That's on me. That's on the mod. Take that out of me. Take that out of my cut. That's funny.

Vance: You good, you good, you you you good. You good, you good. Take it out of my gut, it's crazy. ⁓ gosh. But now, yeah, no, I was saying, ⁓ yeah, I just, I love the confidence that she brings throughout this entire track. And I also love the fact that it does feel like a West Coast version of that MC Lyte song, Cha Cha. But it's of course done in this own way. She got a whole different. different inflection and it brings that raw West Coast vibe from a female perspective. That is very rare because I think the other, the only, I'm not gonna say the only, but another female rapper from the West Coast that I know about is Yo-Yo. And I think there's one more that did romantic call with that reggae singer. I forgot her name.

Ahmad: Yeah. I can't think of the name, but I'll use that one.

Vance: Yeah, yeah. But you don't really have a lot of like, okay, so Potra and yeah, Yo-Yo did romantic call with Potra. So that's it. Those are the only two female rappers from this time that I know about. Everybody else that I know about from the West Coast, you know, when it comes to female artists have been like, yeah. Aside from Kalia, that's her name.

Ahmad: west coast. Damn, that's a good point. Let me think.

Vance: I want to make sure I say her name right too. Cause Kalia from Oakland and she raps, but I don't think there are a lot of female. You said what?

Ahmad: We give a shield. ⁓ Do Master P have any Bay Area women rappers? No, I don't think so.

Vance: Yo-Yo and Medusa, you do have modern stars such as Doja Cat, isn't Doja Cat from South Africa?

Ahmad: Mm. No, she's from L.A.

Vance: ⁓ Sawiti, all right, so you got Sawiti. Stunny Girl, I do know about Stunny Girl, Modern.

Ahmad: But that's, but that's, but that's, but that's, but but that's, but that's, but but if you're talking about the 90s, I'm talking about this, it's 94. It was 94 or 95, so it was different.

Vance: Right. Also. Also, let's find out is what you would call it is. Damn. Is the lady a rage from the West Coast?

Ahmad: She from Virginia, ain't she? She movin' over there. I'm serious, I she from Virginia. She say it in the song. She say it in the song. Something, something, something, something. Somewhere VA. Yeah, she say it in the song. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she say it in the song. Something, something, something, something. VA. She say VA. I know she say VA. I think she from Virginia. Man, she probably retired, got a nice little crib out there, chillin'.

Vance: Ha ha! Yeah, because I know she has. Farmville, she from Farmville. Yay. Okay, I'm not tripping. Prince Edward County. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. So technically she's not. Yeah, no bullshit. Living their life, you know what I'm And can still rap like it's...

Ahmad: Nice, chilling, what? Got a nice little Virginia crib. What? Yeah, she's still there. What's your, ⁓ what's your next one? What's your first one? What's your first one?

Vance: Got one track that she can perform, you know what saying? ⁓ man, okay, all right. This is gonna be a tough one or my third choice. Let me see, let me see, let me see, let me see. So my third choice. Let's go with something easy. I'm going to say pour out a little liquor.

Ahmad: Mmm, damn I love this song.

Vance: Alright, that's your number one.

Ahmad: No, but I love that song.

Vance: Okay, okay, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool. And then one step on your toes. Yeah, pour out a little liquor. I'm not gonna lie, when I heard this originally, I knew Tupac was gonna make a track for this movie, but I honestly thought we were gonna get the track that was off of the movie onto this one. And you kinda do with some cake. Well, no, actually you don't. You don't get. you don't get the actual song that was the intro for this movie, which is crazy. But I'll say, pull out a little liquor because it was one of the first few songs that I liked from this project before actually indulging in the rest of it. I like the fact that this felt like the Tupac between ⁓ the Tupacalypse Now, the Strictly For My Niggas Tupac, but then you could kind of see that this was transitioning into the Me Against the World Tupac. And this was right, like this was right there. And I don't know necessarily if this was during his first shooting, but you could definitely tell that he had a lot of that grit from the East Coast and he was able to bring that.

Ahmad: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This was recorded, this song was recorded, this song was recorded before the shooting and the movie was being filmed during the shooting. So he got shot while they was filming the movie. That's why he did, he did, in there. That's why they had to kind of change it towards the end because he wasn't able to be part of the filming.

Vance: Really? Cause like he's, seemed like he was, he was in the entire movie. Like even up to the point where he handed, you know, dude the gun and shit. So like how they just made a tournament. Like that was the part that will always confuse me. Not necessarily the story.

Ahmad: Yeah, we're Woody, ⁓ Wood Harris was on an interview, was on, he did an interview that I was like doing shit with, well listen to this stuff for this, and he said, ⁓ they had a body double for two-part. with some of the last scenes. you look at those, said some of the basketball scene, some of last scenes, you gotta get a body double with Tupac because he got shot while they were filming the movie. Crazy, I know. Yo.

Vance: ⁓ shit. Damn. Yeah. Which makes sense because that's why he was in New York at that time. You know, why, and then why he also went to the Cross Studios.

Ahmad: There you go. And one thing about Tupac that I gotta say though that I love about Tupac is Tupac makes you understand the power of a day. He's gonna use every minute of a day, He didn't waste a minute. He did not waste a minute, dog. That's why I love pop. But yeah, keep talking. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Vance: Yeah. No, you're good. That's honestly a great point. Like if it didn't take time, you know, being creative as an actor, he took time being creative as a writer. He took time being creative as a poet. He took time to be creative at, you know, when it comes to fashion and helping black owned fashion labels get put out there like Carl Kana. Like, yeah, yeah. To carry on with that, like I like what he was talking about in this. in this particular song, course, it's, you know, pouring out liquor is clearly a form of respect for those that pass specifically in your homie. ⁓ But I think for him, he makes it. He makes you realize how significant it is to do it despite the fact that, you know, the idea of us drinking our problems away, the idea that, you know, we do have people that die every day. ⁓ Specifically in this case, it seemed like it's from crime and, you know, hustling, trying to make that profit for yourself, you know what saying, for the homies. But in so many cases for like you and me, it might be that friend that pass away through like, know, illness, things like that. And, know, you got to find a way to pay that respect, but you're still dealing with the issues at hand for your own self. You know what saying? Whether it's somebody playing with them hoes, you know what I'm saying? Or as long as they the they Glock fuck the coppers, hanging on the block, slinging rocks and making profits. You know what I'm saying? As long as they're able to do that and make that profit, bro, like they could. But they're still that survivor's guilt that's there. There's still that pressure that is there. And I guess to bring this all in a nutshell, man, like, I just liked the fact that he made something so simple, something that was kind of a stereotype at one point later on, you know, headed to the 2000s and kind of provide a deeper context to just something that so many, so many people do in so many different ways, especially within the black community because... A lot of times if we don't pull out then we like, we're lighting something up for somebody, you know? ⁓ I think that song was special to me. And then also that fucking beat, bro. That shit was hard too. So I think for me, like this is my third because it showed, you could see that the level of grit that Tupac had from this song alone. kind of showed the grit that he had both as the actor and then also the artist going through that moment of his life. I don't know necessarily if this was made before or after the shooting, but I think after the shooting, it provides a bit more context to what was happening in his life at the time.

Ahmad: It was made, this is also one my favorite Tupac songs. This is also one of my favorite songs on the album. ⁓ And one of my first Tupac songs I actually remember is this one, my first Tupac album I remember. And ⁓ my brother had the third life album, he's a big Tupac fan, he played this shit, I remember hearing this shit. This was recorded in the bay and you know that because at the end of he shout out Richie Rich, he shout out Governor and yes you say I'm in the mother f'ing bay. So it was recorded in the bay and it was recorded before the shooting so early 1994 maybe 1993 he was the comeback corporal in the bay. And what I really love about this, this movie slash this song is that this helped propel Tupac to stardom. Jews did too. But if you know Tupac back in those days, Tupac was not like a big number one selling artist. He was not number one until Me Against the World came out. believe I could be wrong about that. Please double check me if I'm wrong. But I think, yeah, I think Me Against the World when he first started like doing like big, big, big numbers. He also was in jail at the time. also had the movie that came out, the selling that came out, like everything had built him up. But like...

Vance: Gotcha. Yeah.

Ahmad: Burned Just Got A Baby was on a big Billboard song at the time. I don't think it still has ever been. I think the second album, Strictly For My Niggas, was also not a big hit record. He did hit a lot of Get Around on there. It was a big record. He did have... But it wasn't like a big... I think that was his biggest Billboard song at the time. I think he went like top 10. I'm looking up. Yeah.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Big record. ⁓ I get around. Yeah. So strictly

Ahmad: I think that was his first like fun record, hip, hip record. That was his first like hit, hit record.

Vance: Well, was like it debuted at number 24 in the pop charts ⁓ according to the Billboard 200.

Ahmad: What's the highest it went? It had to go like top 10.

Vance: I don't know. It doesn't say right here. Hold on. Let me see. Let me see. Let me see. Because I'm actually going to the album right now.

Ahmad: on billboard nice Yeah, so this is I get around was on billboard

Vance: All right, so his peak position is 24. I'll go ahead. Yeah, Billboard 200, his peak position was 24 and it debuted on the top R &B and hip hop charts at number four. That's the weekly charts, year-end charts, 94.

Ahmad: It is. It says Billboard Hot 100 111. with the beat.

Vance: What, frog it around? Okay, okay, okay. I think I'm looking at the album numbers.

Ahmad: ⁓ no, not the album. Let's talk about his first hit song. Because, ⁓ Brenda's Got a Baby did not go that high on Billboard. And granted, back then we had Black Radio stations and I think it did pretty well on Black Radio. But I Get Around was like a Billboard hit. So I just wanted to say that because that was his first hit, but he was not like a superstar. The movie helped, the song helped, everything was working out pre-Deaf Row. Tupac Arboretty had a good career going.

Vance: Okay, I'm going to that now. ⁓ yeah, no. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: Above the Rim comes out, he puts it out, and then he becomes a superstar because he gets arrested. The album comes out, Dear Mamas also won Me Against the World. So, most superstar. ⁓ So this is actually before Tupac becomes a superstar. I said this before Tupac becomes a superstar. this is truly, and you said it, this is in between Me Against the World and Tupac Alives Now, where it's-

Vance: Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: Still, Tupac is now, Tupac is very revolutionary, very much like shootback Tupac. Meagre store is a little bit more, it's the same Tupac, more ⁓ grown up a little bit. Puyallup liquor is amazing because unfortunately, if you are, I can't speak for women, I'm not a woman, but black men who are up in America at a certain age, the cook says this over and over again, my cousin died last year. I still can't let that go. I ⁓ can't let that go, man. And I remember being a kid listening to this when I started losing my friends and losing people that I knew. ⁓ It really stuck with me. And whenever I hear it, I think about the people that I've lost in life and friends and cousins and people close to me and family. Because it's a real feeling, man. The whole song is about rapping about your dead homeboy.

Vance: Yeah, my cousin died last year. Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: Yeah, whatever, Unfortunately, like he says in the last verse, "'cause I'm losing all my homies and I'm worried." Like, you know what I'm saying? Like that, like that, like that, ⁓ that hits you, man, and you live with that. That's one of the anxieties we deal with, is black men in America. Always have, like it's not like a new feeling. I think since we landed here, I'm sure our Greek creak, and I'm sure the same is for black women too. Like I don't make it sound like there's a black, particularly speaking as a black man, it's just like.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: You deal with that. You hear the stories of your grandparents and your father. You hear them stories and I'm sure they dealt with the same thing. ⁓ So yeah, this is an amazing, powerful song, ⁓ Yeah, absolutely. Great choice.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it's like right in the middle of the album too. Like you got so much fire off of this entire project and this is just kind of just sitting in the middle along with all of these different songs. But it provides that level of rawness to the album that it actually needs because for the most part, we said it in the beginning, like a lot of the songs off of here is R &B, but the songs

Ahmad: Mm-hmm.

Vance: that are hip hop, they hit really different and they hit on a deeper level, whether it's about some random shit or, you know, some day shit, you know, things that you do or something a little bit more serious. But I think this provided more of the seriousness that the album needed compared to what the film brought as well. So yeah, thank you. Appreciate that.

Ahmad: Yeah. I think it's also like, I love Tupac. And also today is Tupac bobblehead day, if you know, Baltimore. They gave the Orioles gave out Tupac bobbleheads and they named the street after him that he lived at when he was in Baltimore. His sister was here. I want the bobblehead. I'm trying to find one on the aftermarket. I couldn't go. So big, big, you know, I'm glad I'm up to play Tupac all weekend.

Vance: I saw that. Yes, I saw that. Yeah. Me too. ⁓ bro, you know that shit gonna run you.

Ahmad: I'm blasting it everywhere I go. man, it's just an amazing song, man. And it speaks to also how we cope with this. Tupac was so layered, man. The thing I think about Tupac was the most technical rapper. Like you were just talking about the Lady of Rave song where she was giving you the bars and the best rapper and da da da da. Tupac is the antithesis of that, which is common today. First person perspective of what I'm seeing and what I'm going through.

Vance: Yeah.

Ahmad: And I'm speaking to you on a human level for you to relate to me as a person. He says on the third verse where he was like, my mama told me it would be days like this. I don't want to think. So I hit the drink and I stayed blitz. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? you know I'm saying? you know what I'm saying? but that's, but you cope with, cope with the, the death, man. I work with a lot of young guys, man, and I'm fortunate to have.

Vance: getting, I stay bliss. That's some dark shit right there, bro. Yeah.

Ahmad: opportunity to do so. Man, they've seen some they've seen some really tough things, man. Really, really dark kids. It's really, really tough thing. So I love Tupac, man, for putting that in the record and putting in that place that people can see. People can recognize that one of the greatest ever easily hands down one of my favorite true artists. And I miss I miss that ilk. Tupac will be talking about real shit right now if he was alive. He would not be. I hope so.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: He wouldnt eventually give up but I dont think that he would. Yeah brother. Yes sir. Is it my turn? Absolutely. ⁓ Wooo. I'm gonna go real west coast now. ⁓

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Damn. Rest in peace for real, man. Yeah, it's your turn. ⁓ shit, okay.

Ahmad: I didn't mean to turn on you.

Vance: ⁓ wow, ⁓ wow, for real? Okay, I did not know we was going down this route. Okay, right. Didn't mean to turn you on. Second to none, yeah.

Ahmad: Didn't mean to turn away Second second was named set. I'm trying to break it up now second to none, it's produced but it's produced and featuring DJ quit DJ quit who? does not get the West Coast accreditation everybody else gets not everybody else but others get ⁓ but

Vance: Yaaaa Right? Yeah, that's true.

Ahmad: Definitely most 100 % of West Coast Legend. There's no dispute about that. Absolutely enjoy this song 100%. This is on my get ready, get my date going. We bout to go, we bout to go, we bout to go. You know what I'm saying? Start on fools, have an amazing day. You know what saying? Everything gonna go smooth. You know I'm saying? Put this.

Vance: Yes. Yes. Really? Okay. Okay. Really?

Ahmad: Especially the shower because you talking cash it really didn't mean what come on man you popping collar You putting your cologne on you put your deodorant on what man is so that's the man. This is this this is Listen, it's ignorant Okay, it's absolutely ignorant. So don't think you gonna listen to the song and be enlightened. This is is not this is not to pop, okay?

Vance: Could it be it can't be over though easily? Next was sex on top of me. Yes. Yes. Yes. ⁓ No, I gotta go, gotta go. ⁓ Yes, yes. You here for a good time. Not a long time. Yeah, you here for a good time, not a long time. Yeah.

Ahmad: Yeah, this ain't pop. You here for a good now, okay? It's ignorant. Don't judge me by my music decisions, all right? Okay? I'm just saying, that's what...

Vance: I'm not, I'm just, you be the more introspective nigga. I'd be talking about the sound. It just feel like everything's in reverse right now. ⁓

Ahmad: I'm just saying that's what you gotta tell yourself. Like man, listen, don't judge me based on my music selection. I'm just picking a song that is gonna vibe out.

Vance: bruh. We got it. But we got to talk about this song. like, dawg, did you see the lyrics? I mean, the placement of the lyrics are amazing. I'm not going to hold you on that part. You know what saying? I'm just going to throw that out there. Like the placement of how everything is put together on this song, it just fits so well, man. I'm so glad to know that DJ Quick was a part of this. And it makes so much sense the more you hear like the different instrumentals in the background, the tempo. that is being provided, like it sounds like a DJ Quicksong, but I didn't even know that. I was just like, yo, this shit slaps. But yo, bitch come down as it arrive with me. I'll show you how things are supposed to be. Like killing that cow from the back, breaking down to the floor with a 22nd love, you don't hear me though. Now baby, baby, you gotta put your face up or even raise up. Like the mixture of like rapping R &B dog, it's so dope. And it's very rare that you find actual mix of R &B and rap like this. You know what saying? Where you know that you got a rapper and then you got somebody singing in the back. you could tell that it's two different people, but the two genres are just matching together. You know what saying? And it's not in a corny way where you're like, ⁓ we're doing this. We're matching these two genres together. No, they're just doing it casually while giving you another whole new message with just this dude trying to mess around with this, of course, with this girl. So yeah, yeah. This shit was hard. I didn't know DJ Quick produced this shit though. That's crazy. That's baffling. But they don't have to be. They can have it and they'll have it make it happen with me. That sounds like him rapping.

Ahmad: Ain't that him, isn't that him rapping in the beginning? I know what a mic messed up too. Yeah, I think that's quick. I never should've tripped with a girl in the room this place. But I'm all dazed. Yeah, think that's definitely DJ Quick. I just realized I'm using the wrong mic, so it sounds really bad on my microphone. Does the mic sound awful?

Vance: Yeah! Okay. Okay. So I'm looking at hold on. Cause I got my music in the back. Okay. Here we go. Here we go.

Ahmad: Does the mic sound awful? Cause I just realized it's the wrong mic. whatever. Okay. Don't worry about this y'all. Fuck it. We'll do it live. It's Billy O'Reilly style. No, you do it live. Billy O'Reilly. Yeah, go ahead. You start my quick.

Vance: Yeah. We're doing live. We're doing live. So, yes, yes. So, Second to None is definitely a duo. It does not include DJ Quik. So DJ Quik is a separate act from Second to None. It's two people. So I was right. It was more than one person, but I think DJ Quik is... Is DJ Quik rapping over the beat? And they did another song with DJ Carrot called Up in the Club. ⁓ no, no, they're rappers. They're rappers. Yeah. So, okay. So it's definitely second to none.

Ahmad: Quick is not rapping on here. Quick is not rapping on here. No, no. They produce and they co-produce and they both, no, they not rapping. He might be singing on the hook, but he's not rapping on here. I don't want him to take his season on hook.

Vance: Yeah, it makes sense. I'm listening to more than a player. Yeah, they're definitely West Coast shit. But yeah, nah, nah, yeah, definitely. Didn't Mean To Tell You What was actually one of my favorite songs in high school. That was one of the songs that made me wanna actually pick this album up. So this was one of the early ones that really made me say, right, all right, I might be fucking with this album. That and then also actually my second choice, but I digress. Woo woo. We'll continue down that road when we get there. But yeah, man, I'm so surprised that you chose this song. I'm so surprised.

Ahmad: Bro, it's just, yo, listen. You can have a rapper rapping that ass off like an Afro Pops, right? This is the fun part about the hip hop soundtrack and what makes soundtracks so great. It gives you different elements, different vibes, different, we didn't even touch on the R &B joints, which is crazy. Like the SWV, Jewel, Aaron Hall, LB Short, it's some, it's some joints on there. So you get all of that, right? You get 2Pac.

Vance: Yes! ⁓ trust and believe, we better go down that route. Yeah!

Ahmad: pouring out his soul and connecting to you on a different visceral level about some other shit you're going through and how you're dealing with the loss of your homie and your friends. But we humans, right? We live, we grieve even through life. So also there moments where you wake up and you're like, bro, I'm feeling like the man today. And you just in the mirror, putting that it on, this is in the background, snap your fingers, you get into it. What do you say? Cause when it come to loving, I've got a lot of hugging.

Vance: Right, right. Yeah.

Ahmad: Come on, son. Yeah, yeah. It's balance, brother. We're humans.

Vance: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's real. That's real. Okay, so, so it's funny that you say that you mentioned that kind of scene, because that scene was played out in another movie that had a soundtrack, a thin line between love and hate, which I hope we get to now that we're actually doing this album. But yeah, I will say that I will say that it does, it does give me that vibe. I do play this whenever I'm in the car, because it sounds so good in the whip. make you feel fly and shit like that. And then on top of that, like the nostalgic sound that comes with DJ Quick, bro, it's just fire as hell, bro. I love this song. Yeah. Turn you on. I didn't mean to turn you on. Hey.

Ahmad: Yo, you can, there's so many songs, you can pick every, you can pick every song on here for your top, whatever. Like it's hard not to pick every song. You can make a case for so many different songs on here. So the samples, the nostalgic joints, the energy joints, like there's so many, it's such a variety of possibilities of what it could possibly be. It's fun. Like I, yeah man.

Vance: Right, right? There's so many good songs.

Ahmad: You can go either way with this. It's your turn. It was at mine, it's yours. You're next. Yeah, yeah, you got this.

Vance: It's my go actually Wow. Yeah, it's my go. Okay. Well, we're buddy We better turn right into the R &B because my next choice is blowed away Yeah, but we res out Yeah, this was my favorite song off this album back in the day. And it continues to be my favorite album now. ⁓ excuse me, my favorite song now. ⁓ It's so fucking cool. Of course, he's talking about smoking weed and just kicking it, but just the way that it's done is just so fucking fire. And it's still fly. For this to come out of death row caught me off guard because it's just so cool and it's so different from what normally came out of Def Ro and the reputation that they've been known for. But the chorus, man, ⁓ my gosh, man. I just went by it. I'm about to, man. ⁓ my gosh. For the niggas today, but we be bumping in the. Let me take you by the hand and let me tell you something good. Like, whoa, what?

Ahmad: Did you see who this is produced by?

Vance: No! Who is this produced by?

Ahmad: Devante Swing from ⁓ Jodeci and Timbaland.

Vance: you Yes, I okay, Timberland. What? Did not know that. Any smoke is just me. ⁓ my God. That's crazy. Yo, Virginia in the building for this one. I mean, in more than one way, if we're being honest, but yeah, man, I did not know that. That's crazy. And we, this is like this song and

Ahmad: Yeah. That was crazy. Crazy. Yeah, bro.

Vance: And the other song, Horny, those are the only two songs from B. Rizel's catalog. But man, this song shines so much on this track, bro. It was so fucking dope. ⁓ my God. All you do is pull out your sack. And the beat was fire too. Still has that West Coast vibe, but you could tell something was so different about it.

Ahmad: We see why it was, we see why the beat was so fire. Look who did the beat, it's crazy.

Vance: I know, I know, I know. But it is so surprising how it had like a extra, like, ⁓ extra element. But I think for me, it's the vocals, the vocals, bro. It sounds like a rap song, but it's just R &B. It's mainly this dude singing the entire time. The the rap vocals only happened in the beginning and like in the middle part, but it's still short. It's still the vocals that are really bringing you in with that fucking dope ass beat. So the combination for me, man, I think that was the thing that was really making me say, all right, I fuck with this song back in the day. And I fuck with this song even now. Like even when I was like listening to this shit in so many cases, like I was just singing the chorus. I was singing the fucking rat tat tat tat for the fat one. Like, bro, this is a fucking fire ass song, While I'm getting a buzz.

Ahmad: Yeah. The hook is super, it's a great hook. It's so catchy, the beat is like, brings you in. I did not even know that it was done by Timberland or whatever and I'll listen to it a million times, like reviewing this one again. I don't remember this song from back in the day though, but it feels like a very early 90s song, like you might see on movies and shit like that.

Vance: If you're smiling and smoking Yeah. Yeah!

Ahmad: Yeah, I don't know much about this the guy who made the song though. He was on death row But other than that, don't much about him, but I really I did like the song. I do like the song

Vance: Yeah, didn't. Yeah, same here. Now, I always heard Tim and Devante's name said over like all due respect to Tim and Devante. Like, they say his name. just, it never, I never put anything together until you actually said something about it. Now, I didn't know Timbaland was on there. Like, that was the big one, but I heard, kept hearing Devante. So I'm like, I guess that's Devante from Jodeci. But man, dog. ⁓ man, shit, song is still to this day, hard as shit. But I think for me, historically, my next song is weird, but it still sounds good. But it has more historical context, which is why this one is not my number one. Because this is my favorite back then, as I kept listening to other music. And to this day, this is like my favorite track off of the project. I go to it all the time. All right. What's your number one? I can't hear you.

Ahmad: I was trying to get it up here, so I can have it ready for you. I can't. I mean, I have to pick this song. Regulators! ⁓ Mount up. I absolutely love this song. I've always loved this song. I love the sample they re-did. ⁓ I love the storytelling by Warren G.

Vance: Okay. ⁓ mount up. Yeah!

Ahmad: I love how like it's G funk. it's the way it's like it's so unique based on that West Coast sound like a sub of the West Coast hip hop at the time. ⁓ I love the sample in the beginning from the movie, wherever that movie is. I can't think of something in my head. ⁓

Vance: Yeah. Yeah

Ahmad: I love the hook by, it wasn't even like a real hook, it was like bridges. It was like bridges they had with Nate Dogg. Just hit the first star with the Warren G. And it was kind of like going back and forth. Just hit the east side of the LBC. One of the Mrs. China Five, Mr. Warren G. Like it was like, he would go, I just love the creativity of that. I would love to know how they do like side it, back and forth. Warren G's flow is like.

Vance: Yeah!

Ahmad: It's like it's so smooth man when he rap into you is is I don't even know how to describe it like somebody just talking like same feeling you want to listen to boli james Where it's kind of like him just him he's talking to you like an eight like he's having a conversation with you Um, and it and it goes even way better when it's like a beat like this and a slow pace Um, and it's a classic hip-hop song like classic. This is one of the most classy hip-hop songs. It was one the biggest records

Vance: Yeah Yeah! Yeah Yeah.

Ahmad: of the time that year I believe if I'm not mistaken. Yeah man I think it really showed the creativity of hip hop specifically west coast hip hop at the time west coast hip hop was not doing its level of storytelling within their commercial big records. had Snoop, had Dre at the time, had The Crying, we had Doggie Style. Doggie Style did have plenty of storytelling but I'm saying I'm a single.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: perspective, Doris started doggy time, and so did chronic tune and storytelling elements too as well. But I'm saying it's a single, this is a single, written around a story, it's kind of creative. ⁓ Yeah man, wanted to, yeah, yeah. Go ahead.

Vance: Right. Yeah. Everything was kind of wrapped up in a... Yeah, in a bow. Yeah.

Ahmad: Enjoy the set.

Vance: Oh, no, no, no, no, I was gonna say, yeah, everything was wrapped up in the boat, just adding on to what you were saying. What I will say about this, that was also super dope, was to actually kind of hear this story played out. Him actually being consistent with Snoop Dogg providing that level of context and also providing like the fun, the more fun positive aspect and using his voice to actually I guess give you that energy needed to not make this depressing. So if you didn't like the lyrics or you're not really banging with the lyrics, you can at least sing what Nate Dogg is saying. And he just knew how to make this feel more of like a street ballad compared to it just being like a West Coast rap song, in my case.

Ahmad: I absolutely love this song man. ⁓ I love like he did an interview one time and somewhere I don't know which one he was talking about how like it was like he basically pieced together a bunch of real-life situations he's been in to tell like this story over different things. He was shooting dice. He loved shooting dice. He said he talking about the cars and like women and like chasing women around. I just love how Um, it's like a this is like a historical hip-hop song. It's like a major This is like a big this is a billboard hit record right here. I don't even know how high it went on the chart This is like a hit this is a hit record um On this on the soundtrack and I think eventually he put it on his album as well Yeah, this is a hit record

Vance: Yeah. Yes, was. Let's find out. Yeah. Yeah. God damn. I'm looking at all the charts right now. So it went number one on Hot Rap songs, specifically number three, Rhythmic Airplay, 32 Pop Airplay, seven Hot R &B hip hop songs. Number two on the Hot 100, you know what saying? Number two on the UK dance music.

Ahmad: So it was crazy. How did it go? ⁓ huh.

Vance: Number two on the UK dance, number five on UK singles. Yeah, let's see. Certified gold in Australia, certified gold in Denmark, certified gold in gold, certified platinum, five times platinum actually, in New Zealand, two times platinum in the United States and two times platinum here in the US. Yeah, they're not.

Ahmad: Yeah, so it was a major record. It was one the biggest records of the year. 1993, 1994, the year they came out. Warren G was a West Coast artist on Def Jam. That's how big this was. He was on Def Jam at the time. I don't know who, I think he even produced the record too. I could be wrong. Dr. Dre produced it.

Vance: Yeah, that's crazy, man. Yeah. Nah, it was Warren G. No, you're absolutely right. He produced that shit, yeah.

Ahmad: ⁓ damn, damn, damn, damn, damn, And I do think also, I do think the Michael McDonald sample helped out a lot, which is cool, as hip hop does. ⁓ I do miss cool samples as well. But man, what an amazing hip hop record. People who don't like rap, don't like hip hop hear this and still like it because it's just like the sample brings you in, but then the storytelling also like ties you to it. So this is my favorite from his album, just off like the

Vance: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Ahmad: what it stands for.

Vance: Right. This is a song similar to, um, Troy or, um, even check yourself before you regulate yourself. But the song that came out before that, uh, uh, it's like a juggle sometimes. I make you wonder how I feel going under light. Songs like that. Like, yes, yes, yes. It's what makes hip hop hip hop. And

Ahmad: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yep, it's like a pillar. It's like a pillar. Hip-hop, yep. It's like NWA, song. ⁓ he's coming again. Yep, yep.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or express yourself. You know what saying? It's just one of those critical rap songs that you could just pass on to somebody else who may not have never heard rap before. that will be the song that, oh, okay, I like this. And that is their first step into the genre. So critical, essential rap song in general. So yeah, damn.

Ahmad: That's it. That is 100 % fact. Yeah, I had to pick that one. Even though the Tupac song might be my favorite, I Regulate just means so much. It's wrong to not, you know what saying? What you got? What you got?

Vance: That's a great number one choice. Yes, Lord. Yes, Lord. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. Okay. This is going to be a weird one, but because it just kept it, man, it became one of the songs that I liked listening to this album recently. And then also, I think we don't give this lady enough credit because when I started realizing what she was.

Ahmad: ⁓ huh.

Vance: doing outside from making this song. I was like, ⁓ shit, she's a part of like West Coast history in general, the more you think about it. And it's not deep enough by Jewel. I'm not gonna lie. It's not deep enough. Like the setup is already like kind of crazy. The lyrics is crazy because we talked about this earlier in the review, like.

Ahmad: Mmm.

Vance: There's a lot of sex on this album. There's a lot of fucking on here. And then the crazy thing is there's a lot of like legends talking about fucking on this album, which is wild. You got DJ Rogers with doggy style. You got Aaron Hall on here who is now a certified creep if you actually go read the news. ⁓ You got H-Town over here talking about knocking the book. They always talking about fucking all the time. But I think for Jewel- What made me really like this fucking song is the combination of that West Coast sound that we know, but like the way that she really knew how to command this song. Of course she's talking about sex and shit like that, but just the way that she is kind of spazzing and using her voice to like really ⁓ accentuate the lyrics as well as the tone of the song. It was dope, man. Like even like ⁓ later on in the song, would you just start fucking around? ⁓ my gosh. The chorus itself is also wild, but the chorus is critical for me because I used to hear my mom sing that shit in the house in the nineties and I never knew where she got it from. And God damn it, this might actually be it. But yeah, this song caught me off guard. And the more I listened to it, the more I liked it. I was just like, ⁓ my God. I don't know if I could sing it, just even the, just the way that she sees these verses is so fucking cold. And it just truly shows you why the R &B offered this project signs so much. I could have chose anything, but that's too easy. And I also liked the Wu-Tang version a little bit better because of the addition. But I think this one kind of showcases a star, a female star from the West coast that doesn't get enough love. because I fucked around and found out that she was a part of a whole bunch of other West Coast songs. Like, like, ⁓ Dre Day. She was in that song.

Ahmad: Most of the chronic and doggy style was her singing. Actually was on Scarface album too strictly for my whatever the word. Yeah, yeah. Most of that was her. A lot of doggy style, ⁓ most of the doggy style pretty much anytime there's like some singing going on. Especially on Dr. Dre, John. That song where he was, what's that song with the singing on the chronic? You know I'm talking about.

Vance: Yes! WHAT?! Did not know that. Did not know that. Yup. Yup. ⁓ fuck with J Drain. Fuck with Dre Day. She was the, yes, that was the song. Cause I was like, I've heard her voice before. She was the lady that was saying, ⁓ yeah. Yeah. That shit, bro. When I found out, I was like, ⁓ that's a crazy connection. And I don't think she had an album that came out. Cause even when you go to a Spotify, like the lady that she had one album.

Ahmad: Might be, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Yep. Yep. She did. It might not be on streaming. She put on three albums.

Vance: ⁓ for real? Okay, give me help.

Ahmad: It might not be on streaming, it might not be on streaming, but I don't know, I didn't check.

Vance: And I'm looking now. Yeah, I didn't, yeah, it's definitely not on streaming, but I'm looking now because I definitely want to see the albums that should drop. Because I'm like, you would think that somebody who was kind of a pivotal part of like building Death Row to what it was would get like their own project, but I could be wrong.

Ahmad: ⁓ She kinda was their R &B artist. just didn't ⁓ push her, guess, or get her out there or whatever the case may be. She definitely was... She did put out two albums, I wanna say, on Death Row. I could be wrong, but I think I'm not.

Vance: PUSHER. Yeah.

Ahmad: to be around.

Vance: Bro, I'm trying to look for her Wikipedia and it's not even pulling her name up. Yeah.

Ahmad: Yeah, I don't I don't think she did put out this I'm not mistaken she did put out album I thought could be wrong Yeah, black diamond won death row in 2011. Oh my goodness and then jewel 2011 so she never really put a release the album during the peak of her She put out my own 95. Maybe she would have killed it, but she had that death row kind of fucked up

Vance: Okay. ⁓ shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she died in 2022 as well. Yeah. She was from Chicago too, I think.

Ahmad: RIP, yeah, see that. Yeah, rest in peace. Yeah. Yeah, what is your recap of the album? What's your thing about it?

Vance: I know that everybody, like there are so many different songs off of this project that any kind of rap fan, any kind of R &B fan, any kind of fan of music can grab from this album. ⁓ I think that, like you said in the beginning, like you don't see a lot of like original soundtracks to films anymore. Hell, people, it's hard to get people in the movie theaters at this day and age. So to have a...

Ahmad: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Vance: have a soundtrack for a film while it was common in the nineties, because you know, we had this film, we had Thin Line Between Love and Hate. I remember running into a Panther ⁓ soundtrack that I'm like, I still want to listen to because the track list was crazy. But just to live at a time where this was like common and it allowed artists to really get creative with the music and...

Ahmad: You know.

Vance: also tell stories about artists that may have not gotten that push that they thought they were going to get, yet they still contributed to the overall history of rap music in this case, as well as R &B in other cases. I think that this album is one of those pivotal albums for that, I guess, genre of projects to be made. And I feel like we need more of that this day and age. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen all the time, because we definitely got the Black Panther album. And that was the first time in a long time where you felt that same energy towards the album, the same way that it, you you felt towards a film. But I do wish that we had more artists, whether they're young and up and coming or they're already established and they're, you know, just dropping tracks like that. I do wish we had more ⁓ original soundtracks like that. I think aside from the Black Panther album, I know that what was that shit? Superfly. It had an original soundtrack with Future in it. Now, of course,

Ahmad: Good point, A. Absolutely. Yes, sir. You're right about that.

Vance: I'm not gonna lie. There's some bangers off of that album because I listened and because Yep, he was the EP of that. Yeah, so you said of course you see him, you know kind of spotlighted throughout the entire track But you also got you know, lot of Atlanta legends and you know a lot of Atlanta hitters You know on that project too. I 21 Savage was on there too. You know I'm saying there's like I like the fact that these original soundtracks give

Ahmad: Absolutely future future produce it within future EP that ⁓

Vance: maybe an artist, the opportunity to EP or lead creatively. Cause I know Kendrick led the Black Panther soundtrack. So it technically was like another album, even though it just had a whole bunch of TDE and West coast people in there. But just in general, I think that this was one of the, now I want to say one of the first, but one of the best original soundtrack albums to come out and kind of leave a mark on the culture, not only through the film, that it came out with, but then also the music that came from this soundtrack ⁓ changed the landscape of hip hop, ⁓ not only at the time, but even to this day and continues to do so.

Ahmad: ⁓ absolutely miss hip hop soundtracks. I think the Spider-Man movie also had a pretty good one. ⁓ They do a pretty good job of it. don't think the Ninja Turtle movie had a hip hop soundtrack. I do think they had songs on there. I think most of the soundtracks are geared towards animated films and streaming. Animated films are streaming. I think we saw this year with the Netflix movie, the South Korean film.

Vance: Yes. ⁓ yeah! Yeah.

Ahmad: with the Golden song on there. I watched the movie, it was actually really good. I can't think of the name. But Golden, K-Pop, Demon, I'm the J. So I think you see soundtracks in that way. That's one of the biggest songs in the country. But that was the time hip hop soundtracks was on there. I think you mentioned earlier, not the Angela Bassett, the Martin movie, the Thin Lava Between Love and Hate, Soulful, Thin Lava Between Love and Hate, Soulful album.

Vance: ⁓ K-Pop Demon Hunter. ⁓ didn't love between love and hate. Yep. Soul food. Yep. Yep. Yep. That was hard. Panther. I definitely say Panther.

Ahmad: The 90s had a bunch of them though. Whitney Houston joined, she had a soundtrack. Set it off, set it off had a good foundation. Bodyguard, set it off. We was getting flames. I actually would be interested in seeing more smaller films. Like for example,

Vance: Yep. Wasn't... Set it off? ⁓ the bodyguard. Bodyguard. Yeah. Yeah. We were spoiled. We were spoiled.

Ahmad: I'm not Ben Staples and I can't imagine this was easy to pull off. ⁓ I do think it would have been cool if season two, if he tried to do that, but he got in like other LA artists to paint the full picture where it's not just him. ⁓ I think the soundtrack would have helped with the viewership. I think it just goes hand in hand. I wonder if it's probably like top constraints, budget constraints, probably hard to pull off nowadays. But I do think, I wonder if there's like smaller ways we can do it like when she had a soundtrack or something like that. I don't know. I just think that it's gotta be creative and like I think Issa Rae used to do where her show was too. With playlists and she would find how to do it. Alaina did it too. Yeah, good point. Good point.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah Yeah. And also they did it with Atlanta. They did it with Atlanta. Yeah. But I think with Atlanta, they did it a little bit later on. Like you had, because it was still kind of like a new show and it wasn't like people still were trying to figure out what it was. I think it took a little bit longer for Atlanta to have their own official playlist compared to Insecure, where it was like kind of automatic. Like you immediately saw like all the songs, you know, There weren't songs that were dedicated to the entire series until season two for Insecure, but Atlanta, always found ways, aside from Paperboys music, they always found ways, which is technically Donald Glover's brother, but there wasn't like...

Ahmad: Yeah.

Vance: purposeful instrumental music or purposeful music that was made for media compared to like insecure because one of the songs between I think Jasmine Sullivan and Bryson tiller that was made for a specific scene so You know it may it makes a lot of sense but yeah, we I wish we do have more albums that are provided this way man because It makes you want to go watch a movie again. And I'm not talking about just, you know, watching it on streaming and things like that. I'm actually like, that's cool. It's actually cool to do, but to actually get up and go see a movie, have that experience in theaters, and then go back home and listen to the album after like, that's a unique experience that I think it's hard to come by these days. And I wish we had that same feeling, you know?

Ahmad: Yeah, yeah, I think it has to come back. I think marketing budgets have shrunk so much that it used to be a time where this was part of the marketing budget. And you you could make pretty good money putting this off. if it blows up, it makes sense. And then we used to put clips of the movie into the video and stuff like that. Remember, like, like, ⁓

Vance: Even with the changeability of things too. Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: the Alia movie with the Romeo must die and he put the clips of the movie into the thing and like and Rush hour when they had the Jay-Z. Well, can I get a what what? He said put the suck drew hill. Yeah, so they used to they used to they used to use it as a marketing tool And I wonder if that's like a missed opportunity now not as so many people are doing their own content elsewhere I don't know. I think the internet is

Vance: ⁓ yeah, ⁓ yeah, that's another one. Yeah. And Drew Hill. Yeah.

Ahmad: We can get into the details about that.

Vance: And it, I mean, let's be real, it also costs a lot of money to do. You gotta have, one, if you're gonna have an album drop with a movie, you gotta make sure that it's something that's gonna bring a lot of people together. Because we saw how successful it was with Black Panther, but then I saw how not successful, or not as successful it was with Superfly, which came out around the same time. So it's like, you...

Ahmad: Yeah. Well, Superfly was also, it wasn't a Disney movie either. So it's not a Disney movie. Different budget, yeah.

Vance: It was a, yeah, I know. I know, I know. Which is what, but the thing was, it was around the time that that was still popular or I guess because Black Panther set the tone, other albums or other movies tried to do the same thing. And specifically with Superfly, like it's a classic, it's done by a rap video director. ⁓

Ahmad: Yeah. Yeah, sure, sure.

Vance: And then on top of that, like it had Atlanta in it. So you had to kind of bring that vibe down south. So it makes sense.

Ahmad: Yeah, I thought they were just trying to make a Atlanta belly. That's not what I saw. It's like an Atlanta belly. That's what it's supposed to be.

Vance: I honestly think it was kind yeah, yeah. Because, yeah.

Ahmad: Which is fine, which is fine, which is fine. I don't know, it's not a diss. Belly is a classic movie to me. Classic is just to me like a movie that like encapsulates the time, energy, like moments, stuff like that. yeah.

Vance: Cause when you, yeah, when you go back to the original Superfly, it is not, it is not what I mean, the, the, the bombasticness of everything is still there, but like the, the story is completely different. Yeah. It's completely different. Yeah. Which right. I will say this though. It's definitely 2010s blaxploitation, not seventies. Like not like a parody is

Ahmad: Yeah, it's not the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They can't never grab that. They can never get that energy out of them. This sounds right. That's a good way look at it. A lot of this stuff is. I think power is blaxploitation. So that's not crazy. ⁓ Can we talk about Michael? Hey, great album choice. If you are listening this far into the episode, please go listen to ⁓ Above the Room. It is a classic album. And then watch the movie before or after. It goes great with the movie. ⁓ Great choice. Great selection advantage.

Vance: Yeah hell yeah, hell yeah. Yes, great. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. For real. Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Thank you. Okay. Okay.

Ahmad: Can we talk about Michael? Okay, and then we can wrap up. What were your thoughts on the Michael movie?

Vance: Okay, I said this in a video on Instagram, so go ahead and check that out after you, you know, listen to us talk about this movie. I like the movie because it, it, it managed to explain certain things that was talked about amongst fans. And it also managed to really bring back those memories of listening to Michael. ⁓ some of Michael's best songs. And then also spotlight the creation process behind like two of his, you know, two of the best albums in his catalog. You know what saying? However, I do think that because of with the estate that was working with this project and also the fact that I think... Diana Ross didn't want to be a part, like she didn't want her story or, you know, yeah, she didn't want it to be a part of that. I'll go look that up while we talk about it. But because I knew that there were going to be certain parts that were missing, I knew that they couldn't, they couldn't necessarily make this a deep dive into Michael's life. Like you could see that they spotlighted certain things.

Ahmad: Yeah, I heard about that. heard about that.

Vance: from the Jackson five era all the way up to him dropping bad. But at the same time, I think the The thing I had to understand is that this was to make you feel good about the catalog. This was clearly made for you to go back to Michael's catalog and listen to all the songs from Jackson 5 to that point. ⁓ I do also think that they did manage to include some of the more obvious things that was happening in his life. The Vidaligo, the Pepsi, the whole Pepsi accident.

Ahmad: Yeah, that's true.

Vance: I was surprised that they included that, but they did. Spoilers, sorry. ⁓ And also, yeah, even though you could definitely look this up on online, but like, if you want to see it, the victory tour, you know, and the fact that he ended it the last night, like, I do think that there were things that were actually documented and shown, the creation behind Fuller, creation behind Off the Wall, like, and the relationship that he had with-

Ahmad: spoilers these are spoilers you didn't see the movie yeah

Vance: Quincy Jones wasn't really showcased, but you could kind of see it there here, here and there. You know what saying? I think that they, I think that this is a very, this is a very clean version of Michael's life. And there's nothing wrong with that. I feel like it reminds me honestly of the old videos that he would make, the movies that he will make as videos. So like specifically Moonwalker, it, gives me that feeling, but instead of it being a music video, this is his life. This is his life by hopping. So I knew that there were, there were going to be things that weren't talked about, but if you're just looking for something to enjoy and you want to learn more about who Michael Jackson is as a singer, as a performer, the creative process, the things that, you know, he went through a surface level. This is kind of like a good trip through that. And when I was in the theater, I went to Magic Johnson Theater in Largo or Maryland. If you don't know what that is, that's like right near Washington, DC. And everybody had an amazing experience. The crowd was very reactive and ⁓ yeah, it was a popcorn flick for me. But I didn't learn like,

Ahmad: Yeah. you

Vance: some of the deeper elements of Michael, what made Michael Michael or what obstacles that he go through in order for him to reach this level of superstardom. It felt in some ways like you got that, you got to clean Michael. And then they also, I love Joe Jackson, the person that played code Joe Jackson, cause he's a really great villain in general. think it's called Colvin Domingo.

Ahmad: Coleman Domingo, Coleman Domingo, great actor. He's in Euphoria, he's in Euphoria right now. So he's like a ruse therapist. Yeah, he was, he's a great actor, really, really great actor. He also was on Four Seasons on Netflix,

Vance: Call him in Domingo, yes, he's a great actor. Yes. Yes. He was also in Zola. Yeah. So like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I didn't know that. And then he also, he also led a movie where he was like ⁓ a, my God, he was like a, like a, like an actual like activist. I forgot the name of the movie. Yes. Yes. Yes. Cause I saw that too. I was like, damn, this dude got range, bro.

Ahmad: Bayer Rustin, Bayer Rustin, Rustin, yeah, Bayer Rustin, yeah. yeah. Yeah, he did a bunch of, he did the one when he was leading the jail movie about men trying to do plays in jail. But I wanna pick up on a couple points you said. He's working, man, Colman Domingo's working, man. Shout out to Colman Domingo. I love it, Colman Domingo's amazing. ⁓

Vance: Damn. Shout out to you. Yeah, if you're listening to this, wherever you are, please, please come on the show.

Ahmad: I that would be lovely. What I was about to say, a few things, and I hope this doesn't, I don't care what people think, so why am I even caring now? I don't listen to Michael Jackson music. I'm gonna keep it a buck with you. I don't listen to Michael Jackson music no more. Black people in my family, my family treat Michael Jackson like he got our same last name, like we Jacksons. You know what saying? Like we beaming kids after him. It's a lot, my family love Michael Jackson a lot.

Vance: Yeah, why are you here now?

Ahmad: But I ain't gonna lie to you, man. I wanna say like, and I'm not saying I can't prove all the allegations, the man beat the stuff in trial, I this to my dad on the phone. So I understand somebody else's like, and I also wanna say like, it's very true that, know, the government got the people's power and he was on here ownership, da da da, history has shown us, like I agree with all that, I'm very well versed in all of that. All of that can create a level of,

Vance: You

Ahmad: this in under clarity to be like I can't make a decision that's cool. I'm gonna say something and I'm talking about the movie. As a parent, Michael Jackson admitted this on record. This is in an interview. He said this words out of his mouth. If my son, my daughters, my nephews, my nieces went to someone's house and was like, yo, we had a great time. We played with animals. We were on a roller coaster. At the end of the day, we all got in bed together with this old man.

Vance: Okay, yep. Yep.

Ahmad: He slept in the bed with us. I'ma say, you're never going over there ever again. He is weird. Like he had something that's wrong with that man, right? He out his mouth said that he was sleeping in the bed with these kids. So as a man, that is weird. Regardless, regardless of beat the trial and pay people up, people lying. Out his mouth, out his mouth.

Vance: You never come back there, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is. Yeah. Say it like it is, bro. Say it like it is.

Ahmad: Michael Jackson said that and I can't listen to nobody that say something like that, bro. I just can't. I just can't.

Vance: Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I just, it makes it very hard to go back through his catalog. Yeah.

Ahmad: Just kidding. Just kidding. But the thing about his music is different from people like ⁓ Robert, Mr. Kelly, ⁓ Michael Jackson. Contrary to the movie portrayed, Michael Jackson worked with a team of writers. Michael Jackson was not in studios by himself writing all of these records. You can go read the credits for yourself, anybody out there. Michael Jackson very rarely wrote all of these songs by himself. That is not...

Vance: That guy. Right.

Ahmad: It's a bit of an embellishment. I do...

Vance: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that the guy that you just mentioned wrote a song for him.

Ahmad: 100 % Smokey Robinson, Quincy, like he, there's nothing wrong with that. He's bigger than, he's bigger than happened to be. He's not Prince. He wants to be the biggest star in the world. I love certain elements of the movie. I actually love the nephew. I think he did a great job of trying to like redo a character that's probably impossible to do. It's probably impossible to do this character. And I think he's probably one of the only people who could.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Acting was great. Yeah. Acting was great.

Ahmad: They could have pulled it off the way he did. I think that's an amazing skill set. Like kudos to him. I think the other actors did a great job. ⁓ Not a big fan of the white saviorism in the movie, but I'm leaving that part alone. What I did enjoy was I loved the Barry Gordy portion. Obviously kind of talk more about Barry Gordy and the role that he played. ⁓ I'm kind of upset how it didn't show how maybe this is Diana Ross piece that got cut out because Quincy and ⁓

Vance: Yeah. Right. Right. That was dope. Yeah.

Ahmad: I wanted to talk about Off the Wall more. Quincy and Michael met around the whiz. It was leading to Off the Wall. was leading to the thriller. It was kind of like a thing. I kind of wish they showed how Quincy and Michael were actually a little bit more into Spine. I did not hate the movie. I think if you like Michael Jackson, you're to like the movie.

Vance: Yeah! Yeah!

Ahmad: If you like good movies, you're going like the movie. It's like a musical, in my opinion. You go in there and you hear the thing, you sing the song, people just dancing. It's a great time. It's a great time. It's not a good movie. Another thing that I would say that stood out to me was, and I wish you said this too, I wish they told more about Michael Jackson that we did not know. And in that sense, if you think about the movie,

Vance: I agree. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah!

Ahmad: He only had one, and again, took Janet off. He only had one true, meaningful conversation with any of his siblings. That's when he was talking to his sister, Latoya, in his room. I was like, yo, come on. He never had no moments with his brothers, no moments with nobody else in one conversation with Latoya. I kinda...

Vance: Yeah. Yeah! Right. Like they just, they just grew up and ignored them. Like that didn't make sense. Yeah.

Ahmad: Yeah, the whole time. I'm like, come on, he never had nothing with his brothers. think it's also, I would have loved to have known because the first movie that we watched growing up, The Michael Jackson Story, which is a great movie, like four hours, The Michael Jackson Story, you remember that one we grew up with? With Terrence Howard and, no, no, no, sir. The one before Flex. That the before Flex. Not the Flex one, that one doesn't exist. The one pre-Flex was not.

Vance: Right. Yeah, yeah. That was with Flex. Yeah. Oh no, with Flex, no. WHAHAHAHA!

Ahmad: No. Two points, so I'm gonna kick it over back to you. So I'm gonna wrap with the Michael Jordan. First point is, I really wish they talked about his struggles with his image. ⁓ They didn't touch on it. The only person that commented on his nose was his father. Talk about that later. And you mean the time when he's in a room full of black people and no one even talks about the nose? I think his sister talked about how she likes it. ⁓

Vance: Okay, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Yes. Was his father. Yeah.

Ahmad: But I would have loved if they showed, now this could have, maybe didn't happen in his way in real life, but if they was able to, I can't use a word for it, but he could recreate a scene based on different scenes. Other people have said, created a scene where he talks to someone about what he was going through with his image and the vital drip, the vitiligo and how it impacted him and being the biggest star on the planet and his nose thing. I would have actually enjoyed if.

Vance: Yeah.

Ahmad: someone was able to display that side of him as to why the biggest star in the world went from a dark-skinned black man to looking like a white woman. You see what saying? I would have just appreciated that. I think that's the level of hope that was getting out of this movie to where they would tell something we did not know. I think it would have humanized him in a way where we would have never felt outside of the music. So I think that was a missed opportunity for them to expand on that. Go ahead.

Vance: Right. Yeah. But that's the, and I don't mean to cut you off, but to response to that, that's the thing that I think that they were worried about. Because if you are going to take the time to dive into those conversations, you would have to dive into those more mature themes. You know what saying? And I feel like in order to keep it PG-13 and be able to...

Ahmad: Go ahead, go ahead. Yep. Yep.

Vance: I guess have Michael's music passed down to the next generation because guess who? Ironically, guess who I saw in the theater while I was watching this movie. I was sitting right beside an old woman and I'll no disrespect to her. She was very nice and I was sitting right beside a kid, not my kid. And they were definitely with the other entourage. So like you could tell that this was that general, you know, this was a generational kind of ⁓ passing of the torch kind of situation when it comes to Michael. So, but if you wanted to get into those more nuanced conversations, you would have definitely had to go a little bit deeper and a little bit darker into Michael's life because you know, that is probably what not necessarily led to that change in his life, but some of those signs could have been signs that eventually foreshadow what we would get from him. Now, that also leaves me. to ask an interesting question. ⁓

Ahmad: Yeah, what's the question?

Vance: This is the first album, ⁓ excuse me. This is the first installation or installment, excuse me, of I guess a whole trilogy or a whole story. ⁓ It's very clear that they're going to tell the story after because the way that it ended, the way that it ended, I know that pissed a lot of people off, but it's clear that they're making, yeah.

Ahmad: Ha! Really?

Vance: Yeah, like I think one of the reasons why I had a very low rating aside from the inaccuracies that I mean, yeah, the inaccuracies and the lack of representation for Michael's real life. I think the ending being abrupt was also something that a lot of people talked about as well. I know one of my homegirls was like mad. was like, yo, it just cut off. I mean, for me, I didn't feel that same way because when I was watching the movie, it already felt like there was so much that was happening. But I just wonder if they're planning to put this trilogy out, are they going to get in some of those darker conversation? Cause he was still making music at this time and this music was still, it was still hitting the billboards. It might've not been as impactful as it was once, but he was still a part of pop culture in the nineties and the two thousands up until his death. And then when he died, people remembered him for his, like that's when we started to see the tributes and things like that. So if they're going to do a trilogy for this, this entire, for his life, like, are they going to dive into those darker issues or are they just going to be like, nah.

Ahmad: My wife said there's no way they're gonna touch on that. I asked her the same question. said, do they touch on that? And she was like, I just can't see them. She's not a big Macro Jackson fan either. She's like, can see them not making a movie. If they have the movie and don't touch on it at all, bad choice of words. If they have a movie and they don't mention it at all, or they don't have it a part of it at all.

Vance: Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: It's going to look really bad. And I don't know how they cover it good. to your point, it's a great question. And I'm interested to know how would they do that. I'm genuinely curious. I don't know how they can do that. How do you swing that?

Vance: Yeah. Right. I don't know. I honestly don't know. ⁓ Yeah, there's even an article in the Hollywood Reporter ⁓ about whether there's gonna be a sequel. ⁓ But from what I'm reading, the biopic was never intended to be a two-parter, but for the last year under a messy cloud of reshoots and pushed release dates, the idea of splitting the film took form.

Ahmad: I don't know that either. Same. I have no idea. I don't know.

Vance: ⁓ The title card was relatively a last minute addition according to a knowledgeable insider who says it was only put in about a month ago when the filmmakers and studios behind Michael began to realize how successful the movie could become. So it seems like they have more of a sequel.

Ahmad: curious. I would love to know how they're gonna do that. My last point though ⁓ was Joe Jackson. We are well aware if you watched one with Flex Washington, if you watched the one that keeps saying Terrence Howard but it wasn't Michael Jackson, he was in the movie. If you watched the other one, I can't the Jackson family story, whatever it is, I can't think of the name. It's like the three-part joint.

Vance: Yeah.

Ahmad: We get it, Joe Jackson was a shitty father. I'm not disagreeing with that. I think there's enough record for us all to know that. But the thing I think that people miss out on is a few things. First thing was, and also this is not me excusing his abuse, this is not me saying he was not, we get it, I completely understand that. Michael Jackson, the years leading up to his passing,

Vance: Yeah We get it, yeah.

Ahmad: Not just one year, like annual, he had an annual event at his house every year called the Joe Jackson Day. He was celebrating on his dad and eventually he forgave his father because he understood that his father came from somewhere in the South to Gary, Indiana for a shitty fucking job to raise his family. Jim Crow self he understood that that was not easy and took a toll on him essentially he did what he thought he did because kids to be successful and with all things this part I'm also paraphrasing and it's of all things power fucks people up right you went from Jim Crow self to your son is the biggest star in the history of the world and your ego was crazy because he's an unchecked like that's a that's an unchecked ego is just in the bunch of men so I'm not gonna say to say Joe Jackson what

Vance: Yeah. Right. Right. Right. ⁓ what's going on? Your sound. Yeah, you kinda... Okay, okay, okay, okay. We're running that back. I know you was about to say something though.

Ahmad: That's me, that's me fucking up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's me. So I think that's the point. My wish, my hope, something was, again, similar to the image things he was going through. I would have loved to have seen some of those things within Joe that he eventually was able to move on to. And that does not mean he can't be the villain, but you can show some level of... ⁓

Vance: Right. Right.

Ahmad: conversation because he kept alluding to he kept saying in the movie what about my boys and what about the boys what about my boys Michael gonna be fine what about the boys and I would love for me just go deeper right like what what's behind that like what eventually led you to something man like I just feel like it was too surface level and ⁓ I would I would have enjoyed now again the original movie touched on some of this stuff maybe you me to done it

Vance: What about the boys? Yeah. Right. Right.

Ahmad: But if the movie is Joe was the big bad wolf, Joe's big bad wolf, I'm like, yo, come on. That's not.

Vance: Yeah, that's what, that's what, and again, Carmen Domingo did a great job at like, I, it was at a point where I knew who was acting this joke, but I didn't, I couldn't tell it was Carmen Domingo. You know what saying? Cause you know, know, like niggas like Nicolas Cage, if you know Nicolas Cage is in the movie, you don't really matter what it is. It's Nicolas fucking Cage in the movie. But like, In this sense, Carmen Domingo was so, yeah, like, no, I'm not saying he was in the movie, but when you, no, no, no, no. But when you watch movies and there's Nicolas Cage in a movie, you don't see the character, you just see Nicolas fucking Cage. Like you just see his face, oh, it's Nicolas Cage. movie, what Nicolas Cage movie is this? You know what I'm saying? But specifically in this case, I couldn't even tell.

Ahmad: Nicholas Keys. Oh, almost even in the movie?

Vance: that Carmen Domingo was like Joe Jackson. I just saw Joe Jackson, despite the fact that, you know, it was somebody portraying him. But I just, yeah, to your point, I didn't like the fact that they were just making him look like a cartoon villain. ⁓ To quote my friend, Garrett Kennedy, you know what saying? Like, I just didn't like necessarily like the fact that they just made him like a villain. And...

Ahmad: Yeah, same.

Vance: They, again, he felt like the pirate from like the fucking Peter Pan tales and shit like that. Because I know that there was a huge connection between the literature that he was reading and the way that he had that impact on people. Like it was magical and shit like that. And that's when I started realizing like, okay, this is more of a musical life film.

Ahmad: Facts, 100%.

Vance: compared to it being an actual biopic. Because when you look at films like Ray, when you look at films like the Miles Davis film, Miles Ahead, you see the darkness that comes from it. You see the realness and then they also give you the movie. Yeah. Yeah, that shit is, I love it. Yeah, I love that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Man, right.

Ahmad: you I love that movie Don Cheadle. Yeah, I love that movie. Ewan McGregor. Yeah, I love that Miles Davis movie. I wish they got more press. What was I about to say? I wanted to say something. Michael Jackson. What the fuck was I about to say? Shit. Damn, I don't remember. Yeah, I forgot that fast. Yeah, I don't know, man.

Vance: We were talking about Joe Jackson, if that helps. Okay, all right. Well, yeah, man. just, didn't like the way that they, yeah. But I will say they provided more context about the Victory Tour. So I was like, because it's always been talked about. I know podcasts talked about it as well. I know that it was kind of like.

Ahmad: That's true. That's true.

Vance: It was kind of like a fun fact in some cases that Don King wanted to get into making music and stuff like that. And to actually see what inspired the victory tour before that moment where Michael was like, actually, this is the last tour. This is the last concert, last tour, grand opening, grand closing, like closing that shit out and actually moving out on like, moving on his own. That was pretty cool. But

Ahmad: Mm-hmm.

Vance: I do want to see the creation of Bad. I do want to see how he lived in the 90s and dealing with the level of celebrity that he was dealing with. I want to see him perform at the Super Bowl and how that was created. Because remember, before Michael Jackson showed up, the Super Bowl was getting knocked around by In Living Color and shit. You know what saying? I want to know what it was like being...

Ahmad: Yeah. Thanks it.

Vance: not necessarily being Michael, but seeing Michael Jackson in the 1990s and the 2000 after he already reached that peak and continues to be in pop culture, but not necessarily as a beloved figure, but more as a villain in some cases.

Ahmad: How do you cover that and not cover the child stuff though? think everything you said is true and I would love to see that in a film. But how do you cover that and not cover that child stuff? You can't skip over. But everything you said, I agree 100%. I would love to know that. What has it been being the biggest star in the world? With no internet. With no internet! The biggest star in the world, was Annalone.

Vance: That's true. That's true. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I I mean, yeah, yeah. It's, right. But then when you really think about it, eventually we're have to, we're gonna find out about the other stars that we were listening to to this day. Like I know that there's gonna be a Kanye West, I know there's gonna be a Kanye West film that comes out. Biopics, mind you. You know what saying? know, probably, yeah. Like we know that for a lot of these superstars, there's gonna be biopics that come out. not, well, we already got documentaries, but yeah, I just, I just.

Ahmad: for sure. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I was hoping they would say like he had a mental health disorder and would release like let people know like something bro something gotta explain

Vance: Yeah, because they just go to, they go to him being older and now he's just like, you know, it just didn't make sense.

Ahmad: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, What? ⁓

Vance: But it was a fun movie. I finished my popcorn while I was watching it. You know what saying? Yeah.

Ahmad: It was a fun movie. was a, it was a, it was a, I will agree. It was a fun film. It was a fun film. ⁓ do you want to get into what you're listening to?

Vance: Yes, you go first

Ahmad: Let me go first. Alright, it's been awful. Isaiah Rashad has been in constant rotation. I love the song that's on here. I absolutely love it. My man, Otis, shout out to Otis, he hit me up the other day, said, man, what do you think about it? I said, I absolutely love it. And I absolutely love it. Several things. I love that he did not let that sex tape come out, stop him from playing our music. Fuck all them haters. I enjoyed it. He addressed it the way he wanted to address it.

Vance: ⁓ yes. What you think about it? Yup.

Ahmad: I have not watched the Breakfast Club interview with him yet because I've not watched the show on Netflix. So thank you, Don, for taking it off for YouTube. Yeah, I wanted to say, but they did an Isaiah Rashad interview that I wanted to watch. Every song on his album is fire in his own different way. I love Do I Look High, Happy Abba, where he used the same rhyme scheme throughout the joint. I love Mom, M.O.M., Man on the Mission. I love this Boy in Red.

Vance: Yeah, I don't fuck with breakfast club like that Mmm. Yeah, I fuck with happy hour. Yeah.

Ahmad: Absolutely love Isaiah Rashad's He does not disappoint. I love that TDE takes their time until the album is right and it's sonically... I tweeted this out. said, this album is going to play so well live. It's going to sound so great in a concert venue. I would love to see him to sign up when he goes on tour, man, because this is going to play so great. Listening to Isaiah Rashad, what you think about the album before I get to the rest of my list?

Vance: Yeah? Yeah Yeah. Man, listen, I'm still going through it, but I do like how he transformed sonically from the last project, The House is Burning. I like the fact that it feels a lot more mature. It feels like he's providing more perspective compared to what he did when The House was Burning came out. Because when The House was Burning came out, like it was bangers on bangers. He was talking about his life compared to The Sun's Tire Raid.

Ahmad: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Vance: but I do like the fact that he's a lot more introspective for this time around. But he also manages to have bangers. Yeah. You, yeah. You ain't lying about that. Yo, I'm playing that right now. Crazy.

Ahmad: 100 % 100 % you have to be he had to be and he did a great job. Yeah same shit fire 719 freestyle crazy superpowers superpowers Super pop yo every song there's no bad song in the album. I absolutely love it ⁓ Big Crick the deluxe version of dedicated the catalyst was out me put on in the fall last year

Vance: Yeah.

Ahmad: a couple of extra songs on there. Sunset Veil. Sunset Veil was the sequel, the single he put out for it. I do hope Crit, now that he got this last thing out his whatever, I hope he starts to get back in his creative bag and just do whatever the fuck he feels like. I would love, like his first album, Crit was here. I would love more stuff, the storytelling, the compelling of it. I love when he raps about the car stuff. I love the way the sound, love the bass. Crip was here, Crip was rapping about how much he's a great rapper and we need some other rappers to bring that back. I'm gonna listen to today, what's her name? Lil' Simz, played an EP with song on there called Game On with JT from City Girls, fire, great song. Put it your mix, put it in your mix, I'm telling you now. Play that, put it, called Game On, it's great. Listen to ⁓ Pompeii in Utility.

Vance: ⁓ shit, what? Okay.

Ahmad: by Earl Sweatshirt. It's a joint double album between Earl Sweatshirt, Mike, and Surf Gang. But it's like a joint where it's Mike in the first part of the album, in the first 15, 16 songs, and in the other 16, 15 songs is Earl, produced by the Surf Gang. Listen to Do You Want More by The Roots, 25th anniversary live. Listen to some instrumentals on the joint. What else do I to listen to?

Vance: He got another one out? God damn. Goddamn.

Ahmad: Mexico Drill, always Mexico Drill playing all the time. Got a new song called Knuckle Out. ⁓ Black Keys, one my favorite bands. out Peaches, playing that. ⁓ Vince Staples, put out a new single called Blackberry Marmalade. I'm really excited for his album. That's a great song, great video. I was playing Ress, Reese, how I do, R-E-S.

Vance: Yes. Yes. Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I heard that shit. That shit fly too. Okay. Yeah.

Ahmad: I love that album, that alternative R &B 90. I think that would have been a big record had it been promoted a little bit differently. I think that was a wonderful album, classic album. I would love to cover it. I love every song on that. R.E.S. album is called How I Do. Gangsta.

Vance: Isn't that the song that got Golden Boys on there? Golden Boys. Yes. You know, Sante Gold was a part of that, a part of that album. Sante Gold? Yeah. Yeah. My home girl. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I've been listening to like, actually Golden Boys have been in like rotation lately. So it's funny that you actually said that cause.

Ahmad: Golden Boys? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yep. Who? Wedgie. How did I know that? Really? The album came out in 2001. Yeah. That's fire, I didn't know that.

Vance: I took some time to listen to Golden Boys and then I got into some of her other projects. But yeah, Sante goes a part of that song. And I heard through the grapevine that this song is about most deaf. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah.

Ahmad: ⁓ that's fire. ⁓ man, it's probably was a great song. ⁓ Last two, Gangsta Grill's dedication to Lil Wayne. Sometimes you want to hear rappers rap about how good they can rap. And not rapper-dy rap, because rapper-rap is like born. Wayne's rapping about how he's the best rapper. Wayne's dedication to that bag is just confidence rap, and you need that sometimes. Great album. Last but not least is Continuum by John Mayer.

Vance: Rappity rap? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Ahmad: Came out in I think this is a 20 year anniversary this album. It's one of my favorite albums ever It has like waiting on the world to change. It has gravity slow dancing in the burning room Bold is love. It's a great is yeah, John May was in his bag, bro. So yeah, I absolutely love that Yes, sir. That's how I've been on man a little over the place. I'm all over the place and a lot of reggae a lot of reggae Peter Tosh Morgan

Vance: Okay. Yeah. Okay, shit. Okay, as you should, as you should.

Ahmad: Yeah, yeah, a lot of reggae, brother. A lot of reggae in this house. Yes, sir. What you got?

Vance: Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. So I'm looking at my Spotify right now. So definitely it's been awful. ⁓ The Prelude by Suave. I've been blasting that lately. That came out today. They got fucking Jermaine Dupree in the first song, out the break. Coop is on the project as well. Suave.

Ahmad: What is it? S-W-A-S-W-A-B-E-Y?

Vance: V-A-Y, Suave, yeah. Back to the trap freestyle. That shit hard, but Casket, bro, blew the fucking speakers out in such a good way. It didn't really happen. My speakers are fine. But man, that shit is hard. ⁓ my God, this old, it's just, I don't know if it's an EP. Yeah, bro, yeah. Yeah, and they sound on there too. So I've been blasting that today, honestly. ⁓ Directs Erection.

Ahmad: BA. Okay. I'm looking up. All right. I'm adding this right now. Oh, Marco Plus on here. Yeah, I rock on Marco Plus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Vance: by Al Capone. This is an old Memphis underground tape from 1995. I like it because it is definitely old school Memphis, but it has more of a West Coast vibe to it compared to some of the other projects that came out, 36, Tommy Wright III. This one is a little bit more West Coast compared to those other projects. And it also again shows the versatility that Memphis had in the 90s, despite the fact that they all were from the South. You could tell that there were like different influences. Speaking of Memphis, my next, the next song that I was listening to or the other song I was listening to today was Go by Keeglott. That shit literally goes. Yeah, that shit goes crazy. That shit goes crazy.

Ahmad: Woo! Yes, sir.

Vance: I was also listening to Let God Sort Them Out by The Eclipse. I went back to It Was Written. ⁓ Also went back to King's Disease 2. Listening to Key's new project Epiphany, man. It's always good to just go back to Key and listen to some of his newer projects because he is experimenting, yet the voice that he has is still... ⁓ recognizable despite the fact that he tried so many different things with his trap music you know what saying he's he doesn't do one form of trap music you know you're gonna get trap music with key but it's always a different form and then because of epiphany man i went back to 777 ⁓ which is like honestly in my opinion his best album i think that's his best project that was the one with Kenny no no no no ⁓ key 777

Ahmad: ⁓ Freddy Goobz? Key, key, key, key, key, yeah, sound, sound, Yeah.

Vance: Yeah, the John Wayle, Kenny Beats as a producer. I think that's his best project. ⁓ There's still songs from here that I play. Toronto, God damn ⁓ Love on Ice.

Ahmad: Yeah, I don't want that. Key, key, key, low key was a key role, funny, same word, was super important for the whole ATL movement that we have for the past 10, 15 years. He played a major, big, big, big, role in that. Don't think he a of credit he deserved for the role that he played, yeah, major, major, major important person.

Vance: I know. Yeah. Yes. Yeah! I interviewed him in the past. Like, yeah, I interviewed him for all hip hop back in, I think 2014. Yeah. This was like right after, right after he, what was it? after he left? This was around the time that Rist, Look at Rist was popular. Cause I know that that was a big song. And then he was also on some other songs actually. But yeah, nah, like yo, Key doesn't get the respect that he deserves.

Ahmad: ⁓ damn, I didn't know that.

Vance: but like just talking to him, bro, like that nigga is an Atlanta nigga for sure. ⁓ But speaking of Atlanta, this guy's not from Atlanta, but he definitely makes music out of Atlanta occasionally. YG, I went back to some YG. It's been a while since I actually listened to YG, especially since, you know, he's making, his aesthetic is changing a little bit. It's still West Coast music, but it- It's a little deeper into the West Coast aspect. And then he's also, I guess, being a little bit more open about his life compared to how it was in the past. But I will say, man, like I do like the fact that he's leaning into like the natural West Coast. He's always been able to do that, but it kind of seems like he's changing his version of the sound. You know what saying? It sounds different, but it's still kind of the same. So I was listening to State of Emergency. I was listening to Hollywood. And then also Lovers and Friends as well, for sure. ⁓ Key Glock, Yellow Tape, Pinata. And then last but not least, ⁓ it was Sade's birthday, think, a couple weeks ago. So Diamond Life. Yeah. My favorite album, Diamond Life, yeah.

Ahmad: Mmm, mmm. Got some joints over there. Yeah. Yes, it was. Yes, sir. I was planning to. I was planning to. Yes, sir. I was planning to. Man. ⁓ my God. That's a beautiful album. I love ⁓ y'all that. Anything to promo as you wrap up?

Vance: Mm. My gosh, man, I need that on vinyl. yeah, I'm working on a couple of things. ⁓ Definitely working on that EP, you know what saying? ⁓ Working with Nishio on another EP. We got a name for it. We just were still working out some of the concepts. ⁓ But the beats are fire, you know? Ahmad, I sent you the beats, so you got those, you know? ⁓ okay. All right. We'll just shit. Well, yeah, yeah, it's...

Ahmad: Yeah, yeah, I agree with him.

Vance: We're working on it. We're slowly but surely turning away. But yeah, when it comes out, I'll let you know. ⁓ Check out the SPL that's around the corner. So if you're trying to watch me on the internet, definitely check out the Sixes Prize League. I might be in another lacrosse league. But if you want to just look at lacrosse shit. ⁓ my God. God damn, that was a big ass, big ass. I didn't know you was going to see that. But.

Ahmad: I know. Ha!

Vance: If you want to find me, my name is Vance B underscore on IG and Vance64 on, what's that thing? X Twitter, whatever you call it. Even though I don't really talk on there anymore. And also blue sky Vance dash B blue sky. ⁓ Come fuck with your boy. We're here. We're in this bitch. Yes.

Ahmad: Excellent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, follow all of that. I would just say follow record report on social media Instagram Facebook We're not good at using social media because we got real lives and jobs. We just love the pod. So we all Yeah, 100 % especially me every day I wake up she man the top what you could do is if you listen to this share it with a friend You can send us an email record report podcast.com with any suggestions thoughts. So go and stuff shut the fuck up

Vance: Yes. Yes, and we're old. We're old people that shake our heads at the clouds. Yes. Yep.

Ahmad: And ⁓ thanks for listening me as far as the episode, man. We really appreciate it. Every second counts. And we're trying to build a community here. So just share it out with your family and friends, man. Thank you for listening. Till next time. Peace.

Vance: Yes, Lord. Peace.

Ahmad: Woo!